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	<title>Comments on: Hot Pot Of Lax: Penalty Or Ejection?</title>
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		<title>By: Michael Jones</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17408</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Penalty
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penalty</p>
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		<title>By: Reg Hartner</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17401</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg Hartner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The lack of knowledge of what the actual rules actually are scares me.  Do you guys really play that game?  Read the rule book. 

For starters.  THE CHAIR of the rules committee is Brian Voelker the head coach at Drexel.  He was also one of the hardest hitting defensemen to ever play that game when at Hopkins, on the US Team and in the MLL.  If he&#039;s on board with these changes I think it sends a message.  

2nd.  The first page of the book that talks about the rules is the points of emphasis and there are only 2 this year.  Head and neck issues are front and center. 

&quot;Sportsmanship: The committee is increasingly concerned that in some areas, inappropriate conduct is occurring in and around NCAA lacrosse contests. The committee asks administrators, coaches, student-athletes and game officials to take
measures if needed to address these issues.

Protection of Head and Neck: Student-athlete safety plays a part in virtually every rules committee decision. In recent years, the committee has attempted to address head and neck contact in a variety of ways. In this rules cycle, the committee asks
game officials to stringently penalize head and neck contact. A new rule has
been added to address this issue specifically&quot;

3rd.  Under personal fouls and illegal body checks:
&quot;c.  Initiating contact with an opponent above the shoulders of the opponent. To
be legal, a body check must be below the neck, and both hands of the player
applying the body check must remain in contact with his crosse.

e. The blocking of an opponent with the head or initiating contact with the head,
known as “spearing.” A minimum of a one-minute nonreleasable penalty
shall be assessed for spearing. A three-minute nonreleasable penalty shall be
assessed if the spearing was violent.&quot;

4th Under Technical Fouls there is a specific rule on head/neck.

&quot;Targeting the Head/NeckSECTION 14. A player shall not deliberately initiate contact to an opponent’shead or neck with a cross-check, or any part of his body (head, elbow, shoulder,etc.) or stick. Any follow-through that contacts the head or neck shall also beconsidered a violation of this rule.PENALTY—One, two or three minute nonreleasable foul, at the referee’sdiscretion. Excessive violation of this rule may result in an ejection from the game.&quot;

The issues on this play and the rules are being skewed.  It does not matter if the Hop players drove on 3 poles, had his head down, dropped the ball, lost his stick, didn&#039;t have his helmet on tight, had the helmet pop off of ANYTHING else that has been mentioned here.  The UVA player led with his helmet and the first and main point of contact was the Hopkins players head.  

That is the point of emphasis, that is why there are links on health and safety under Player, Coach and Official on US Lacrosse&#039;s website.  That is why there are a dozen videos and articles on head injuries here: http://www.uslacrosse.org/UtilityNav/AboutTheSport/HealthSafety.aspx 

I&#039;m a lifelong defenseman that take pride in a physical game and believes that the UVA player did need to slide and put the Hop player on his butt.  The issue is that the head was involved.  We need players to play physical between the whistles and we need to make sure everyone leaves the field without debilitating head injuries.  
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lack of knowledge of what the actual rules actually are scares me.  Do you guys really play that game?  Read the rule book. </p>
<p>For starters.  THE CHAIR of the rules committee is Brian Voelker the head coach at Drexel.  He was also one of the hardest hitting defensemen to ever play that game when at Hopkins, on the US Team and in the MLL.  If he&#8217;s on board with these changes I think it sends a message.  </p>
<p>2nd.  The first page of the book that talks about the rules is the points of emphasis and there are only 2 this year.  Head and neck issues are front and center. </p>
<p>&#8220;Sportsmanship: The committee is increasingly concerned that in some areas, inappropriate conduct is occurring in and around NCAA lacrosse contests. The committee asks administrators, coaches, student-athletes and game officials to take<br />
measures if needed to address these issues.</p>
<p>Protection of Head and Neck: Student-athlete safety plays a part in virtually every rules committee decision. In recent years, the committee has attempted to address head and neck contact in a variety of ways. In this rules cycle, the committee asks<br />
game officials to stringently penalize head and neck contact. A new rule has<br />
been added to address this issue specifically&#8221;</p>
<p>3rd.  Under personal fouls and illegal body checks:<br />
&#8220;c.  Initiating contact with an opponent above the shoulders of the opponent. To<br />
be legal, a body check must be below the neck, and both hands of the player<br />
applying the body check must remain in contact with his crosse.</p>
<p>e. The blocking of an opponent with the head or initiating contact with the head,<br />
known as “spearing.” A minimum of a one-minute nonreleasable penalty<br />
shall be assessed for spearing. A three-minute nonreleasable penalty shall be<br />
assessed if the spearing was violent.&#8221;</p>
<p>4th Under Technical Fouls there is a specific rule on head/neck.</p>
<p>&#8220;Targeting the Head/NeckSECTION 14. A player shall not deliberately initiate contact to an opponent’shead or neck with a cross-check, or any part of his body (head, elbow, shoulder,etc.) or stick. Any follow-through that contacts the head or neck shall also beconsidered a violation of this rule.PENALTY—One, two or three minute nonreleasable foul, at the referee’sdiscretion. Excessive violation of this rule may result in an ejection from the game.&#8221;</p>
<p>The issues on this play and the rules are being skewed.  It does not matter if the Hop players drove on 3 poles, had his head down, dropped the ball, lost his stick, didn&#8217;t have his helmet on tight, had the helmet pop off of ANYTHING else that has been mentioned here.  The UVA player led with his helmet and the first and main point of contact was the Hopkins players head.  </p>
<p>That is the point of emphasis, that is why there are links on health and safety under Player, Coach and Official on US Lacrosse&#8217;s website.  That is why there are a dozen videos and articles on head injuries here: http://www.uslacrosse.org/UtilityNav/AboutTheSport/HealthSafety.aspx </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a lifelong defenseman that take pride in a physical game and believes that the UVA player did need to slide and put the Hop player on his butt.  The issue is that the head was involved.  We need players to play physical between the whistles and we need to make sure everyone leaves the field without debilitating head injuries.  </p>
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		<title>By: Clifford Gordon</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17397</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the refs made the proper call. Yes it was head to head but the Bluejay&#039;s helmet was not properly affixed to his head as anyone that wears a Pro7 or CPXR can attest to. If you have them cinched them down as per the manufacture&#039;s instructions you know how nice they fit. 

Other than that I see nothing but great lacrosse being played here. I see a solid slide from UVA&#039;s shorty that recognized his fellow middie was in trouble and slid body to body to defend his goal. Yes he should have gotten his head down more as to avoid the head to head but if you look at it in review he raises his head up at the point of contact as he sees the ground ball but is already committed to the hit. These are all good things from a teamwork perspective and I work so hard trying to instill timing and communication with my high school kids I coach. We all know you play defense as a team. UVA demonstrates that very well here. If the hit would have been 6 inches lower it would have been a UVA fast break and most likely a goal...

In Hopkins&#039; defense I&#039;d like to say that their player got right up off his feet, put his bucket right back on, and stayed on the field for the EMO and buried his shot in UVA&#039;s goal. That&#039;s how you get them back for penalties. Make them pay on the score board. I know that same player had at least one more goal that afternoon post hit and played hard for the rest of the game. Straight class and heart.

That&#039;s lacrosse Gent&#039;s. Play hard, keep a cool mind, if you find yourself on the ground get up, and for your Mother&#039;s sake wear your helmet properly!!!

Cheers,
Gordo]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the refs made the proper call. Yes it was head to head but the Bluejay&#8217;s helmet was not properly affixed to his head as anyone that wears a Pro7 or CPXR can attest to. If you have them cinched them down as per the manufacture&#8217;s instructions you know how nice they fit. </p>
<p>Other than that I see nothing but great lacrosse being played here. I see a solid slide from UVA&#8217;s shorty that recognized his fellow middie was in trouble and slid body to body to defend his goal. Yes he should have gotten his head down more as to avoid the head to head but if you look at it in review he raises his head up at the point of contact as he sees the ground ball but is already committed to the hit. These are all good things from a teamwork perspective and I work so hard trying to instill timing and communication with my high school kids I coach. We all know you play defense as a team. UVA demonstrates that very well here. If the hit would have been 6 inches lower it would have been a UVA fast break and most likely a goal&#8230;</p>
<p>In Hopkins&#8217; defense I&#8217;d like to say that their player got right up off his feet, put his bucket right back on, and stayed on the field for the EMO and buried his shot in UVA&#8217;s goal. That&#8217;s how you get them back for penalties. Make them pay on the score board. I know that same player had at least one more goal that afternoon post hit and played hard for the rest of the game. Straight class and heart.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s lacrosse Gent&#8217;s. Play hard, keep a cool mind, if you find yourself on the ground get up, and for your Mother&#8217;s sake wear your helmet properly!!!</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Gordo</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Kane</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17382</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[shoulnt have driven through 3 poles]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shoulnt have driven through 3 poles</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ilstatelax19</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17380</link>
		<dc:creator>ilstatelax19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You have to also take into account that the officials only got to see this play in real time, if you were watching this game then you would realize that without replay a 1 minute full time penalty was well deserved. Watching it again it could have been a 2 minute because of the violent nature of the hit because Guida was a defenseless player at the time. I agree that this was the right play by the defender for taking the body and Guida definitely will think twice about trying to dodge through the entire Virginia defense again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to also take into account that the officials only got to see this play in real time, if you were watching this game then you would realize that without replay a 1 minute full time penalty was well deserved. Watching it again it could have been a 2 minute because of the violent nature of the hit because Guida was a defenseless player at the time. I agree that this was the right play by the defender for taking the body and Guida definitely will think twice about trying to dodge through the entire Virginia defense again.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Kinne</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17377</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Kinne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matthews doesn&#039;t strap his helmet tight. He keeps his chin strap loose enough to slide his helmet on and off without unbuckling it. So the whole helmet coming off thing is his fault. Not even a penalty.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthews doesn&#8217;t strap his helmet tight. He keeps his chin strap loose enough to slide his helmet on and off without unbuckling it. So the whole helmet coming off thing is his fault. Not even a penalty.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: wcllrepn</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17374</link>
		<dc:creator>wcllrepn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Should UVA have led with his feet? Sumo chest bump? Punch him with his hands? Ran into him without his knees bent? How else do you hit someone head on while they are very very fast and very dangerous and driving to the goal that you are out there to protect? Maybe he could have put his shoulder into him but then people will say he could hurt his collarbone! Lacrosse is about creativity, how you hit shows just as much creativity as how you shoot. It is up to the player and I for one would have been chomping at the bits if I had an opportunity to light up Guida. The guy is freaking good and uva defense shuts him down!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should UVA have led with his feet? Sumo chest bump? Punch him with his hands? Ran into him without his knees bent? How else do you hit someone head on while they are very very fast and very dangerous and driving to the goal that you are out there to protect? Maybe he could have put his shoulder into him but then people will say he could hurt his collarbone! Lacrosse is about creativity, how you hit shows just as much creativity as how you shoot. It is up to the player and I for one would have been chomping at the bits if I had an opportunity to light up Guida. The guy is freaking good and uva defense shuts him down!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17370</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didnt that guy play the banjo in The Deliverance?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didnt that guy play the banjo in The Deliverance?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: P_Jones</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17369</link>
		<dc:creator>P_Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as the rules go right now, I thought fighting was the only expulsionary foul.  Vicious hit, definitely.  Dangerous for both, definitely.  The second it happened I said it would have to be at least a 2 minute locked in, if not 3.  I was very surprised it only got one.  However, it woke Guida up, and I think he scored 2 after the hit.
As a former player and present coach and father of a high school player who has been dealing with the effects of a concussion for the last 2 months, I can attest to how devastating concussions can be too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as the rules go right now, I thought fighting was the only expulsionary foul.  Vicious hit, definitely.  Dangerous for both, definitely.  The second it happened I said it would have to be at least a 2 minute locked in, if not 3.  I was very surprised it only got one.  However, it woke Guida up, and I think he scored 2 after the hit.<br />
As a former player and present coach and father of a high school player who has been dealing with the effects of a concussion for the last 2 months, I can attest to how devastating concussions can be too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jamlando</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17368</link>
		<dc:creator>jamlando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ -The hit was head to head and the Hop player lost his helmet.&gt;&gt; - 1 Min penalty Locked in


-The Hopkins player had lost the ball when he was hit but was still within 5 yards of it. &gt;&gt; -  Not Illegal

-The UVA player seems to leave his feet, and hits the JHU player with an upward motion &gt;&gt;. -  Not illegal

-The UVA player also approaches the hit ready to crosscheck the Hopkins player. &gt;&gt; - Not illegal

1 min Penalty with it locked in because it was head to head.  I think they made the right call.  If he did all the same stuff except he put his shoulder into the guy&#039;s sternum it would have been a clean hit.  From the looks of it, the helmet might have still come off.


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> -The hit was head to head and the Hop player lost his helmet.&gt;&gt; &#8211; 1 Min penalty Locked in</p>
<p>-The Hopkins player had lost the ball when he was hit but was still within 5 yards of it. &gt;&gt; -  Not Illegal</p>
<p>-The UVA player seems to leave his feet, and hits the JHU player with an upward motion &gt;&gt;. -  Not illegal</p>
<p>-The UVA player also approaches the hit ready to crosscheck the Hopkins player. &gt;&gt; &#8211; Not illegal</p>
<p>1 min Penalty with it locked in because it was head to head.  I think they made the right call.  If he did all the same stuff except he put his shoulder into the guy&#8217;s sternum it would have been a clean hit.  From the looks of it, the helmet might have still come off.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Tayvin</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17367</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Tayvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NFL that gets a $50,000 fine. Hell, it might even draw an ejection in the NFL because his helmet came off.
 Since these are college players, no fines will be incurred.  I say it&#039;s an ejection.Here is why. I love to hit. I am a big defender and love nothing more than feeling a lesser mans body crumple as I hit him. However there is a way to hit and a way not to hit. This kid clearly drops his head and the hit could not have been placed any more specifically on the head of the JHU player.
It&#039;s dirty play. 
And it&#039;s dangerous, to both players. 
At the least there might need to be a stiffer penalty created for hits like this. 5 min? Trust me, I am the last person who thinks we need to &quot;pussify&quot; our sports. But that was a dangerous and dirty play. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NFL that gets a $50,000 fine. Hell, it might even draw an ejection in the NFL because his helmet came off.<br />
 Since these are college players, no fines will be incurred.  I say it&#8217;s an ejection.Here is why. I love to hit. I am a big defender and love nothing more than feeling a lesser mans body crumple as I hit him. However there is a way to hit and a way not to hit. This kid clearly drops his head and the hit could not have been placed any more specifically on the head of the JHU player.<br />
It&#8217;s dirty play. <br />
And it&#8217;s dangerous, to both players. <br />
At the least there might need to be a stiffer penalty created for hits like this. 5 min? Trust me, I am the last person who thinks we need to &#8220;pussify&#8221; our sports. But that was a dangerous and dirty play. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: FlowhadmedalBrosef</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17366</link>
		<dc:creator>FlowhadmedalBrosef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[dude the guy ducked into the hit a little bit. he wasn&#039;t leading with his head at all. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dude the guy ducked into the hit a little bit. he wasn&#8217;t leading with his head at all. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael Riley</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17365</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Head to head hit 1 minute non-releasable. Thats a bush call to get tossed for.. keep your head up and dont dodge 4 guys, superstar, unless you wanna get out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Head to head hit 1 minute non-releasable. Thats a bush call to get tossed for.. keep your head up and dont dodge 4 guys, superstar, unless you wanna get out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Swank Lax</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17364</link>
		<dc:creator>Swank Lax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17364</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m curious how you interpret this as targeting the head. I think he clearly leads with his helmet (though the brunt of the damage is not done with his helmet), but it seems hard to make the conclusion that he targeted the head as well when the only part of his body that makes contact with the UNC player&#039;s helmet is his own helmet and the most violent part of the hit comes from the impact on the UNC player&#039;s torso, not his head. That seems to be more a product of their heights at the time of the hit than any attempt to go for a headshot. Now, had he led with his hands/stick/shoulder to the head, I think you could make an argument for targeting, but that isn&#039;t the case here. 1 minute penalty and move on with the game.

As an aside, I don&#039;t think many coaches would get upset about a penalty like that. Sets a tone defensively for sure. Sometimes picking up a penalty is a necessary evil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious how you interpret this as targeting the head. I think he clearly leads with his helmet (though the brunt of the damage is not done with his helmet), but it seems hard to make the conclusion that he targeted the head as well when the only part of his body that makes contact with the UNC player&#8217;s helmet is his own helmet and the most violent part of the hit comes from the impact on the UNC player&#8217;s torso, not his head. That seems to be more a product of their heights at the time of the hit than any attempt to go for a headshot. Now, had he led with his hands/stick/shoulder to the head, I think you could make an argument for targeting, but that isn&#8217;t the case here. 1 minute penalty and move on with the game.</p>
<p>As an aside, I don&#8217;t think many coaches would get upset about a penalty like that. Sets a tone defensively for sure. Sometimes picking up a penalty is a necessary evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Reg Hartner</title>
		<link>http://laxallstars.com/hot-pot-of-lax-penalty-or-ejection/#comment-17360</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg Hartner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laxallstars.com/?p=35124#comment-17360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Agreed.  He has to take the body there.  If someone is trying to dodge 
down the alley you have to slide and you have to take the body.  The 
issue is not that there was a hit, the issue was that it was hit that 
lead with the head that targeted the head.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Agreed.  He has to take the body there.  If someone is trying to dodge<br />
down the alley you have to slide and you have to take the body.  The<br />
issue is not that there was a hit, the issue was that it was hit that<br />
lead with the head that targeted the head.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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